On December 2-3, 2017, Cardinal John Dew, the Archbishop of Wellington, Bishop Patrick Dunn of Auckland, and Bishop Stephen Lowe of Hamilton, held a workshop for young Catholics called “Bishop’s Banter” at St Mary’s College in Ponsonby, New Zealand. According to an article appearing in NZCatholic, many of the questions dealt with the issue of homosexuality and same-sex marriage:
Bishop Lowe said he thinks young people are leading the way in terms of relating with the LGBT community.
“I think young people are prophets of the Church. They always have something to say to the Church. And that’s what has come up. Young people want the Church to be more engaging with them (LGBT people),” he said.
He said the issue of homosexuality may be a “Galileo moment” for the Church.
He continued:
“The psychology is still up for debate but the Church has got to engage with the science and engage with the experience of couples with same-sex attraction.”
Bishop Dunn said:
“We need to make the LGBT people feel welcome. They are beautiful people but they feel rejected by the Church.”
On January 19, 2018, James Martin, S.J., posted a link on his Twitter account to the article from NZCatholic (as reported by the dissident pro-gay marriage New Ways Ministry) about the New Zealand “Bishop’s Banter.”
In another article from NZCatholic, from September 28, 2017, Bishop Dunn praised Martin’s book “Building a Bridge: How the Catholic Church and the LGBT community can enter into a relationship of respect, compassion and sensitivity” and repeated many of his arguments almost verbatim. He wrote:
If the institutional Church is going to be sensitive in its use of language, we may need to move away from the phrase “objectively disordered”, which the Catechism itself uses to describe the homosexual inclination. Saying that one of the deepest parts of a person is “disordered” seems needlessly cruel.
In “Building a Bridge,” Martin wrote:
One way to be sensitive is to consider the language we use. Some bishops have already called for us to set aside the phrase “objectively disordered” when it comes to describing the homosexual inclination (as it is in the Catechism, No. 2358). The phrase relates to the orientation, not the person, but it is still needlessly hurtful. Saying that one of the deepest parts of a person—the part that gives and receives love—is “disordered” in itself is needlessly cruel.
A number of the other talking points from the New Zealand Bishops seem to be directly pulled from James Martin; for instance, in terms of a supposedly new understanding of homosexuality, which like the discoveries of Galileo, reveal some sort of recently uncovered truth about the origins of same-sex attraction, Martin said this when asked if LGBT individuals were born that way:
Yes. Science and psychology shows that, and most people are finally coming to see that this — for mysterious reasons — is the way they are made. That’s something that’s held by almost every reputable psychologist and biologist. And the “LGBT” people I speak to have always felt that way. Part of it is accepting oneself and accepting this is the way God made you.
The comment about Galileo appears to have originated with certain gay Biblical revisionists; in his book “Being Gay, Being Christian: You Can be Both,” Australian psychologist Stuart Edser wrote:
“Just as Galileo was asked to choose between church dogma and what he knew to be true, so the church today asks gay people to choose between church dogma and the authenticity of their natural sexual orientation, something they know to be true.”
Martin also proposes a radical reinterpretation of the Bible to fit a pro-gay narrative; concerning the passages in Scripture which have traditionally been understood as condemning homosexual activity, Martin said:
All these Bible passages that people throw at you; I think really need to be understood in their historical context. I mean Leviticus and Deuteronomy and even the stuff from the New Testament where Paul talks about it once or twice, has to be understood in their historical context…certainly in Old Testament times, they didn’t understand the phenomena of homosexuality and bisexuality as we do today.
On the issue of “experience,” and how understanding the “experience” of same-sex couples could possibly change the Church’s viewpoint about homosexuality, Martin wrote:
To begin with, it is nearly impossible to know another person’s feelings at a distance. You cannot understand the feelings of a community if you don’t know the community. You can’t be sensitive to the L.G.B.T. community if you only issue documents about them, preach about them, or tweet about them, without knowing them. One reason the institutional church has struggled with sensitivity is, in my opinion, that many church leaders still do not know many gay and lesbian people…
Cardinal Christof Schönborn, the archbishop of Vienna, reminded us of this at the meeting of the Synod of Bishops on the family, when he spoke of a gay couple he knew who had transformed his understanding of L.G.B.T. people. He even praised same-sex unions. The cardinal said, “[O]ne shares one’s life, one shares the joys and sufferings, one helps one another. We must recognize that this person has made an important step for his own good and for the good of others, even though, of course, this is not a situation that the church can consider regular.” He also overruled a priest in his archdiocese who had prohibited a man in a same-sex union from serving on a parish council. That is, Cardinal Schönborn stood with him. Much of this came from his experience of, knowledge of and friendship with L.G.B.T. people. Cardinal Schönborn said simply, “We must accompany.”
According to a 2014 Pew Research Center survey: 85% of self-identified Catholics ages 18-29 said that homosexuality should be accepted by society, compared with just 13% who said it should be discouraged.
According to a 2014 Pew Research Center survey: 85% of self-identified Catholics ages 18-29 said that homosexuality should be accepted by society, compared with just 13% who said it should be discouraged.
It would be interesting to see what proportion of the two groups actually attends Mass on a regular basis.
One questions who the object of worship may actually be, in a religion that celebrates anal sex as a sacrament. The father of lies, not Our Father who art in Heaven.
Love the sinner, reject the sin.
Well that is unfortunate. Perhaps the Bishop was not listening when he was taking philosophy of the human person nor was he listening in Catholic Moral Tradition.
Whatever our natural dispositions we all have to attain the moral good. Homosexual acts are not a moral good and regardless of any disposition or potential scientific marker they can’t be acted out.
Those with a homosexual disposition have to do what all Christians are called to married or not…the chaste life. No doubt it is a Cross to bear but it is not so special that it warrants trying to make a Galileo moment out of it. Galileo was working with merely scientific matters, the sexual morality of human persons has consequences, are about moral absolutes and have eternal consequences. Science does not trump that regardless. So no NOT a Galileo moment.
You are an inspiration Joseph Sciambra.
Catholic doctrine is not determined by polls or percentages and while we love and accompany those who have same sex attraction, we do them no favors by excusing sinful behavior.
Common sense and pure biology is enough to see how the body is supposed to function between the sexes. It is obvious what the Creator intended. A Galileo moment??? No it is not…It is pure disorder and disharmony that is as ancient as the fall in the Garden of Eden. Just look at the fruit and see there is a problem here.
Firstly Galileo did not go against Church Dogma as it was never Dogmatic teaching that the earth was the centre of the Universe. Secondly, if being born with homosexual attraction is acceptable then does this mean that being born with homicidal tendencies, or a paedophile tendancy or any other disorder means that those practices should now also be supported by the Church. These Bishops proposing this are the agents of Satan, contravening Scripture and using flawed arguments.
TRUTH is immutable. It is not subject to the changing tides of culture, or the politicization of science, or the trendy fashions of our media. It is eternal, and must be preached “in season, and out of season.” It is truly sad that even some of the Shepherds in the Church have forgotten these basic concepts.
While all children of God are welcome in the Church, regardless of their inclinations, all behaviors are not. If some find this distinction “hurtful,” the problem is not with the Church and Her teachings, but rather with the poorly formed consciences and the underdeveloped catechesis of those questioning what is otherwise not only Biblical but also scientific in its origin. Homosexuality may exist, but it is neither spiritually good for those who practice it, nor biologically in conformance with how we exist as a species. In this case, both faith and science clearly point in the same direction.
God revealed to us in Genesis His plan for mankind. Although we lost our chance in this world for perfect harmony with God, His plan for us as revealed in Creation never changed. Homosexual behavior mocks that plan, and is no different in its source than the temptations that encouraged the Original Sin.
A smiling wolf who is clothed as a lamb, devouring the souls who need truth and clarity. I really pity the bishop, the sculls lining the floors of hell because of the scandal of the innocent. He needs prayers, desperately.
Well we know there is no gay gene. John Hopkins scientists proved that last year….again. If psychology says its “normal” what is that based on? Psychology and psychiatry used to have it defined as a mental disorder. It seems that choosing to be gay is a decision from learned behavior, or a reflection of past trauma or other issues.
Yes.. Nothing quite like the rebellious wisdom of youth.
Not that I believe the surveys. It is not a close secret in politics that polls are used to form opinions, not to reflect them.
I’m not LGBT, but I too feel rejected by the Church— not the Church formed by The Lord, but the man made/run church. Low point in life and find no support, but condescension, rejection, and misunderstanding. Totally ignored if not judged by busybodies. Very unhappy lifelong catholic. Very sad that they continue to promote “the new evangelization “, and apparently don’t understand they’re pushing people away who are not in the cliques. God did not make us with a cookie cutter
And some seem to forget that all are sinners, and Jesus came for sinners, not the perfect.